Интервью Джиму Тейлору с BBC Radio 5 Live - Интервью - Проект "ЛПВ"

Интервью Джиму Тейлору с BBC Radio 5 Live

	12.02.2018, 21:09
- Jane: Next this afternoon, the Russian-born MC who's become one of the world's biggest rap battle stars via an unlikely route which took him Germany, Oxford University and Slough. His name is Oxxxymiron, and his videos get tens of millions of hits. If you've never seen a rap battle, you should look it up: no music, no backing track, just two people face-to-face trying to out-rhyme one another. Here's a little bit of Oxxxymiron in action. This is from his first English language battle against an American MC. Цитата If you thought that we were chumps, you were high on mushrooms If you thought I'm a chump, you should try Ayahuasca I got brothers in this club, that would love to rush ya I'ma turn Mount Rushmore into Mother Russia! - J: He moved to the UK as a teenager and says he was shocked to get into Oxford to study English literature. After graduating, he spent time in London before moving back to his home country where he's become a huge star. He's been speaking to 5 Live's Jim Taylor about the technical side of what he does as well as the politics of it. - Oxxxymiron: The only thing that I kind of realised from studying Old English and Beowulf and things like that was that battle rap, which is essentially, you know, the thing that I'm mostly involved with in hip-hop, is not just, you know, a black American phenomenon, even though that's obviously where it comes from, you know, for us as battle rappers, you know. But it's also a phenomenon that existed throughout cultures across history and across the world. There's sort of, you know, poetic duelling and, you know, the tradition of what in hip-hop would be two MCs going against each other, you know, you find it anywhere in the world, from, you know, Scandinavian poetry to, you know, Australia and just everywhere. So that was quite an interesting realisation. - Taylor: It reminded me a little bit, from what I've seen, of debating… - O: Yes! - T: … which is a very much a kind of a public school, Oxford kind of vision, isn't it, which is, here's my argument, here's my opponent, and we're going to find the best words we can to make our case. - O: Sure, I mean, obviously in battle rap you have other factors, which are, you know, sort of the artistry and how you put it all together and how persuasive you are and also just sort of psychological things, because you have to… I mean, battle rap can get very physical, unlike debates, most of debates, you know. I mean, it's definitely not boxing and that has no place in battle rap, shouldn't have a place, even though, you know, fights do break out on a regular, but... - T: You're right up in each other's faces, aren't you? - O: You're right up into another man's face and really telling him things that outside of a battle context would be completely unthinkable and would certainly lead to, you know, to an altercation. Цитата Original () И скажет, что я трусил целый год соваться в бой. Скандалы, разоблачения, интриги слухи, грязь - Всё вывалит, задеть меня так лихо ухитрясь, И словно приговор в ответ на все его слова За серость и за скуку будет уа-уа-уа-уа… Цитата Translation () And he'll say that I was afraid to go into battle for a whole year Scandals, revelations, intrigues, rumors, dirt - He'll spill it all, managing to hurt me so cleverly And as if in response to all his words, to all his dullness and boredom, There will be a "wa-wa-wa-wa…" sound - T: How far in advance do you know who you're going to be battling and how long does it take you to prepare what you're going to say when you're stood up there facing off against someone? - O: I mean, in terms of how long before a battle I actually know who I'm going to battle, that really depends on the situation. I mean, it could be, you know, my last battle I had in Russia, I actually knew about that battle a year in advance, you know. But sometimes it's like a month, etc. As for preparation, I don't know how other MCs do it. For me, personally, it has always been between sort of five days and two weeks. Most of the time I just, you know, think of the battle in advance, but then I don't sit down to write until the very last moment, like a week or, you know, two weeks was the most that I ever prepared. - T: Right. And do you ever get moments mid-battle when a phrase jumps into your head and you throw it in there? - O: Yeah. - T: Or is it very much based on what you've written and learned? - O: Look, I come from a freestyle background initially, like most MCs, but, you know, I just got extremely tired of freestyling sort of by the age of 20-25, because it's a very repetitive sport. It's very fascinating in the start, you know, oh, how can he make up all this stuff in his head? But then you kind of realise, you know, the rhymes are getting... You can't really freestyle in a way that's as entertaining as a pre-written battle, because the battles that I actually participate in now and that have been sort of the mainstream of battle rap across the world for the last 10 years are pre-written. But there certainly are freestyle elements, you know, don't just stand there and kind of just spit out completely memorised stuff. Obviously, there's a certain element of improvisation, otherwise it's going to be a dead battle. And sometimes I come up with... in battle rap, we call this “flips”. So once your opponent's rounds finishes, you may want to start with a “flip”, which kind of uses the stuff that he just said and you just throw it back in his face. Or you could do it mid-verse as well, but that's a bit more difficult, but yeah, certainly those elements exist. But I mean, you know, when you have one English speaking battle and the rest are in Russian… You know, my level of English is still completely... I can't compare it at all to my level of Russian, simply because it's my third language, you know. And in fact, before the battle with Dizaster in the US last year, which was my first battle in English, before he challenged me to that battle, I wouldn't... It was pretty much like the Oxford story, I would have never imagined, you know, that I would have, you know, the guts to go into that, to write in English that would be any good, you know. Now that I've done it, it's almost like a bridge that's been crossed. So I may want to write something in English, you know. I haven't written a single line of English poetry or rap before that battle, before I started preparing for that battle. So it was quite... It was like jumping in headfirst into cold water, pretty much. Цитата I don't like the Russian goverment, that's powerplay But it was coward USA that taught them how to behave And bully States into appeasement, so fuck your home, Dizaster <…> Fuck your moral high ground of moron thugs Fuck your war on terror and fuck your war on drugs! - O: I mean, I knew that it would be political in advance, because, you know, that battle was quite unique, I think. And that's why also it has got such a huge response, not only in Russia, but also across the pond. Because, you know, we were battling in 2017, you know, tensions are already running very high between the two countries. Dizaster is a Lebanese born American. I'm a Russian with a Jewish background. So you have like, you know, a lot of background stuff going on there. And on top of all that, even though, you know, we were, you know, as battle rappers, we would go as hard as possible insulting each other, you know, and trying to really hurt each other verbally and emotionally, I'd almost say, we still brought people together. And I think we realised that at a very early stage that, you know, especially in a political climate like now, that battle was a unique event, because you really had a huge Russian crowd in the building. You know, most of them were US Russians, but a lot of them came from Russia as well. You had, you know, Dizaster support and just battle rappes from LA and from Canada, you know, English speaking people. And, you know, at the end of the day, they all peacefully coexisted and loved each other's presence there. So I think it was almost like, I mean, I don't want to sort of blow it out of proportion or sound, you know, big headed, but I think it was almost like, like a diplomatic meeting or something, because it was like a grassroots meeting between the two countries. Because obviously, you know, when politicians meet, it, I don't know, it just usually feels a bit fake. And, you know, obviously looking at the events going on now in the world, they don't seem to be able to get it right anyway. While obviously, this is a tiny event in a little LA venue, but it really felt like, you know… In that battle, it felt like everyone's human and everyone's very similar, because even though we're completely different, you know, ethnically, culturally, linguistically, we're still all fans of the same culture. And I think for a lot of the US fans it was a crazy surprise that there was such a huge love for battle rap in Russia, you know, actually for real battle rap that came from America, you know, so it was like a connection between the two countries. Цитата I may not be from around here, but there's one thing I know: No one can build a rap career just out of multis and flows You need the X Factor: DMX and Xzibit agree That's why your name doesn't have an "X", and mine's got three - T: But at the same time, I suppose you don't want to be seen as being a voice of Russia or somebody who is there to represent Russia and the Russian state. - O: Well, not the Russian state. - T: To the US. - O: I think, you know, you have to separate the state from the people, that's very important. I knew I was in this weird position, because I knew I would represent Russia, whether I wanted it or not. And I mean, I wanted to represent my country, no doubt about that. I didn't want to represent any sort of political, how should I say, you know, propagandists, you know, words or statements, you know, from from the Russian state. I don't think this wanted to represent that from the American side. So I was kind of walking a very, very thin line. I didn't want to be an instrument of state propaganda. But I also knew that I wouldn't be able to, you know, to be a problem for Dizaster in that battle, unless I fully represented my culture, and fully went against his. So the angle that I took was in my first round was pretty much a sort of standard anti-globalist critique of US foreign policy, which I can completely subscribe to. I mean, I can't say something in a battle, which completely goes against my views, you know, that would be hypocritical. But obviously, you know, I kind of took all that and then threw it in Dizaster's face, because he did come out onto the stage with an American flag. You know, so I kind of obviously use that to my advantage. And I did say things like, you know, “Mother Russia”. - T: It was like a “Rocky 4”, but for the battle rap generation. - O: Yeah, exactly, but I made, you know, I made sure that, you know, people would see that, at the end of the day, I'm just representing me and myself, and my people, not some sort of a state machine. That's why I said, you know, “I don't like the Russian government” in the first round. - T: Because the impression we, I guess, sometimes get here is that debate is suppressed in Russia. And those arguments, those conditions aren't taking place, you say, in battle rap, they can take place. - O: I think debates are being suppressed in different forms everywhere across the world. It just takes different forms somewhere. It's, you know, government intervention, and you know, lack of press freedom. And I think Russia is one of those examples. But battle rap is becoming huge. And I really hope that it won't be shut down, you know, and I really hope that it won't be shut down by public opinion in the West as well, because I think it's a really good platform for bringing people together, even though to an outsider, it may seem like it's a very disrespectful, rough environment, you know, all the machismo and all the kind of alpha male behaviour and all the pushing and shoving and shouting in each other's faces. But I think it's almost like, you know, how in school, like you had a fight, and then you would like, actually become friends with the person you fight with, like, that reminds me of battle rap, it's the same mentality. - T: I could see that in your face during the rap battle we talked about where you're, even as you're having these horrendous insults thrown at you, smiling your way through. - O: Yeah, the reason why I'm smiling is… I mean, I'm not smiling all the way throughout. Sometimes, you know, you can tell from a face that I really don't like whatever he's saying. But I'm an MC, and I really love and respect hip-hop, you know, where it came from, what it is now. I'm trying to be a scholar of the culture, so to say. And when I smile, and when I sort of cheer for my opponent, that means that I really enjoy the art in which he's put the battle together, the rhymes, the schemes, the angles, you know, with which he's coming at me, the, you know, just the craft of it. So it doesn't usually, it doesn't always have to do with the content. It could also just be, you know, an appreciation for how well he prepared for the battle. I think that's a real, like, camaraderie between the battle rappers. - T: And as somebody who's lived in the UK, now living in Russia, does it make you sad or worried that there does seem to be a deterioration at the moment in the relationship between the two countries? - O: Yeah, I mean, it makes me, I mean, like any sane person, I'm worried about the doomsday clock being, you know, set back to cold era times and all that. I mean, obviously, I'm very worried, and I think it's so unnecessary as well, because just going to the US, seeing, you know, the people there, and I actually invited Diz to come to Russia. I brought him to Ukraine, and I brought him to Russia, so we performed in Kiev and in Omsk in Russia together, you know. I'm sure he would say the same thing if he was sitting here. The people are pretty much the same everywhere. Whatever, you know, race, nationality, language, you know, at their core, people are the same, not in a bad way, but in a good way. You know, they have the same worries, the same, you know, the same struggles, etc, etc. So to have that kind of conflict go on between the political systems of the two countries is really unnecessary, dangerous, and, you know, unshameful in a certain way. So I really hope that the situation will diffuse itself. But I am a realist. And I'm, you know, obviously watching the news. I'm not sure how that's gonna happen. - T: And with your fame and your profile in Russia, how much can you use that to speak out when you disagree with what your government's doing? Or do you worry that there'll come a point where you will be shut down? - O: I'm a rapper. I know rap has always been political. Not every hip-hop artist is political, though, right? It's like, I don't know, it used to be more actually with Public Enemy, you know. If you look at the charts now, in the West, almost none of those tracks have any social commentary. And I am a rapper, right? So I'm not a politician. I'm not a political expert. I'm not a political analyst. So it's a very dangerous, slippery slope to take. If there was a single person or power in Russia, a political power, you know, that I will be able to fully support, I would do it. Unfortunately, I can see none right now, on either side of the spectrum. And I think, you know, I'd rather contribute to sort of the positive things in the world by doing things like this battle, right? I mean, it has a political dimension in a certain way, right? Bringing people together, telling Russians, explaining to Russians that the people on the other side of the pond are not evil savages, stupid Americans, you know, all the cliches that we get, because we do get them from our television, right? We are constantly fed this stuff. But at the same time, you have a lot of anti-Russian propaganda in the West. So I'm trying to follow this path where I, I mean, it sounds a bit pretentious, but I'm trying to educate people because I do realise, you know, I now have a huge following in Russia, right? So, you know, kids need to be educated about what life is in other countries. Do I want to go onto the barricades and fight the powers that be? Well, not right now. I mean, I don't think that would, I think that would devalue whatever I'm doing as an artist, right? Having travelled the world, I think I'm in a privileged position where I can see that there's problems in every country, right? And there's huge social problems and huge social issues outside of Russia as well. So even though I personally have a lot of problems with how Russia is operating right now, you know, as a state and how the country is run, I would still be sceptical about sort of Western demonization of Russia, which really, there's a lot of that. There's really a lot of that. And my message would be the same to the West, you know, as, as it was to my fellow Russians, you know, don't equate political games with the regular people as all, you know, because I know Russian youth, I travel a lot around the country. I've been in pretty much every city in Russia, which is like more than, I don't know, 500000 people. And the young people are really the same everywhere, you know, they, they use the internet, they love music from all over the world, you know, they're into fashion from all over the world, and they, they see the similarities. So it's, every year, I think it's harder and harder to make them hate the other, if you see what I mean. And I really hope that's like, in that way, I'm optimistic, because I think these kids are actually freer than even my generation, and certainly than the generations before. So hopefully, unless, you know, the internet gets shut down, and the, you know, and countries close their borders, and whatever, I think we're good. Цитата Forget World War Z, this is Cold War X You're not leaving Oxxxy dead just cause you slaughtered Rex I'm different, I grew up on cold cabbage and carrots No Lenny Kravitz, we have Yeltsin and Lenin as parents Oh, wait, wait... Oh, you mad cause I'm Joseph Stalin on you? - J: There you go. The Russian rapper, Oxxxymiron, talking to 5 Live's Jim Taylor. And we've got a bit of congratulations here from Jane in Glasgow. Hello. Well done, 5 Live, for covering the battle rap scene authentically. Официальный перевод Русской службы BBC: https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-43023140.amp
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